Handling Loss & How To Recover From It

This is a process that I now work with my clients on, is going back through the facts of it. What did really happen? Is it possible that I was to blame? No, chances are it's not.

And so just going back through that process and just building those little winds of self-confidence back up again and being able to trust myself again and finding that I could be excited about the future and that it wasn't being disloyal to my children that are gone if I lived my life again. Welcome to the Thrive Her podcast. I'm your host, Amy Sanders. I'm a fitness and wellness pro, mom, stepmom, second wife, and master certified life coach.

I'm here to help you manage your mind. So you can uncover the most potent version of yourself and create a thriving life you love. Hello, everyone. Welcome back to the podcast.

Today, we are talking about loss and specifically the loss of a baby, maybe during pregnancy. And I have Jennifer Sen on with me. She is a coach, just like myself. However, her niche is very different.

She helps women learn how to go through that healing process of a loss. She actually suffered a loss of twin babies, two babies, twins. Obviously, it was a very hard time for her. And she's very passionate about how to help people get through this.

And also, you know, loss might look different for you, but just how we can actually move through that and a much more, I mean, loss is loss. You know, but there's things. You can do to make it easier. So first and foremost, welcome, Jennifer.

I'm excited to have you here. Jennifer is just a beautiful person. A little bit about her is she does have three kids. She just told me that she's been married for 32 years and she looks like she's like 35 years old.

So I don't even know how that's possible, but she. Anyway, so welcome to the podcast, Jennifer. I'm excited. Thank you.

Oh, thank you so much. I'm so excited to be here with you. Thank you. So tell me a little bit about your story.

So she's also an entrepreneur at heart. Her and I have like a lot of parallels in our lives, which just makes me totally excited. But tell me how you went from salon owner to this new niche and a little bit more about your background. Yeah.

So I've been in the beauty industry since I was 18 years old and I've owned my own salons along the way. And so I just. I've always been so passionate about women and making them feel beautiful and, you know, and I mean, coaching comes naturally. I hold a lot of people's biggest secrets.

And so it just, I am very passionate about women and making them feel better. But, you know, in my own life, I was 29 years old. I had two little boys and they were five and two. And we got pregnant for two.

Twin girls. And we were so thrilled, but shocked, you know, this big grand finale to our family and everything went along really, really well. And we got to 32 weeks and it's, they just stopped. There was no movements.

So, you know, one thing leads to another next thing, you know, you know, you're having a C-section and coming home with no babies. And, you know, in right now at this time of year is a C-section. Especially reminiscent for me because I buried my babies. And then 10 days later had to sit at the Thanksgiving table with my extended family and pretend like I was grateful for my life.

And so I just think it's really, you know, the message that I got from that was people, you know, everyone just wanted me to be back to normal. Back, you know, just get back to normal. Let's just move on. You know, you can have another baby, you know, all the.

Things that they tell you and it really did a lot of damage on my self-esteem, my self-worth for years. And I didn't have anybody to help me through it at that time. We didn't have social media, you know, I was at the mercy of, I was at the mercy of a few year, you know, a few wonderful people who came forward and, and shared their story with me, but it just isn't something that we talk about in general. Yeah.

So that is my mission is to really walk. Beside women and, you know, so that they don't feel alone through this so that it's such an isolating experience and be able to work through. There's so much guilt. There's a lot of shame.

There's a lot of heavy emotions that come with it. That without processing through can be really damaging. So anyway, back to the original question, my, my journey was as a beauty professional, I went into business consulting. Realized that there was also a fair amount of coaching that needed, that needed to be worked with.

And so I got my, my coaching certification from there and, and then pivoted to just working with women who with loss, because I see such a need for it. There is such a need and it is a heavy, it's a heavy thing to coach on. It takes a very special person to want to stand with these women. And so I was able to do that.

That loss with them. So I just want to say, I just want to honor you and tell you you're doing an amazing thing. And I also want to come back to like, you're like, okay, I felt so alone Thanksgiving. Hey, now I'm just supposed to be fine, but I am so far from fine.

I can't put on a happy face. I think one thing that we miss when it comes to loss. So I lost a sister to suicide, which was devastating. For our whole family.

I was not her mother. I can't imagine being a mother, losing the loss that you went through, you know, but I remember just thinking six months later, you know, for the first couple of weeks, you feel very supported by the people that love you, but then life goes on. But for your life, you don't feel like it goes on. Yes.

Six months later, you're still in that place saying, I don't feel like I'm not, I'm still not happy. I'm still mourning this loss. I'm still not okay. And you brought up those feelings of like shame and guilt and like, you know, all these other feelings that you're feeling.

Why do you think that is that we, you know, the loss of your babies was completely out of your control. You did everything that you could, but you still had those feelings. Why is it that we have these feelings that they're not even valid? Really?

Like the grief. Yes. But the, the shame. The shame and the guilt and all these other things.

Well, I, I mean, I would imagine you might share some of it too. We, we start the minute it happens. We start at the very beginning. Like, what could I have done different?

What should I have done that I didn't do? Where were the signs? Where, where did, what did I, what did I miss that I should have been looking for to prevent this? And, you know, especially when it takes place inside of your body.

You, there. There is no one else. There's no one else you can blame, but yourself. And it's just, it, it, you just start going there, you know, and it, it's a really hard thing to get rid of.

Yeah. So walk us through like how your experience was and then how you came to a place where you're like, okay, I feel so much better now. I don't ever think the loss is totally gone. You're always going to have a hole in your heart.

It just is now bearable and you can look at it in a different light, right? The loss. When you experience loss, you don't get over it necessarily. You just learn how to move through it.

Right. Yeah. So with, for me, it was years. I'm a big people pleaser, you know, and I, I love to make people happy and my biggest, you know, my biggest accomplishment in the whole world is to be a great mother.

So I didn't want to deny my children anything, you know, so we went right into the holiday season and we just. Pretended that everything was fine. And in the meantime, you know, I just was feeling like I can't even believe that these people are living life as normal. Even the people that are closest to me, even my husband and how do they, don't they care?

Don't they, you know, wish that these babies were here? Like how could they forget about it? And that lasted quite a while. And then I found.

Finally, I mean, it, it was years. It was years of feeling like I hated my body. I hated my, you know, I just got through. I didn't dare to make any plans for the future because when you lose a child like that, you know, there's no guarantees in the future.

So you just live day to day. And it really took, I mean, it probably took me 10 years to get to the point where I started to trust myself again and I, that's really what it was. And I went back through, and this is a process that I now work with my clients on is going back through the facts of it. What did really happen?

Is it possible that I was to blame? No, chances are it's not. And so just going back through that process and just building those little winds of self confidence back up again. And being able to trust myself again and finding that I could be excited about the future and that it wasn't being disloyal to my children that are gone.

If I lived my life again. That's a very interesting statement you just made. It's almost like you have to suffer because they're gone. You can't have a happy life because they're gone.

Otherwise you're not really being loyal to them. Right. I was afraid. Will I forget them?

If I move on, will I forget them? And they'll just become a, you know, a forgotten part of my past. Yeah. It's a very real fear.

Yeah. And the women I work with too. Why do you think that is? I mean, you just said, cause you think you're going to forget them, but it's like, of course, you're not going to forget them.

You never forget them. You are totally, I call it like punching yourself in the face, but emotionally over and over and over. It's like you are hurting yourself over and over. And it's so not fair to you.

Yes. Yeah. I think there is definitely a punishment, you know, that I think that comes with the guilt. And so then there needs to be a punishment for it.

And if I, you know, I mean, that's it. My, like my life as I know it is over. I'll never be happy again. And I can pretend and I did, but I think there's such a fear of the future.

There's such a fear of the future. Yeah. And what you don't know in those early stages and in the early years is that, that you'll never forget them and that you can recall those memories in a minute, you know, and they're always with you. And I, I see evidence of them everywhere, but for a while, yeah, for a while, you really hang on to that.

So grief is definitely something like when it happens, you're in it. And you do have to go through this grieving process in order to heal. Yeah. A lot of people try to shorten it, try to act like it's not a thing anymore and that they're okay when they're not okay, you know, put on this facade, but you mentioned that it took you 10 years to get through it.

And I'm sure people are like, gosh, I can't be doing this for 10 years. So what would you say? To the person who is going through the screaming process, she's in it. What would you tell her when she's now listening, being like, is this, am I going to be here for 10 years?

Right. Like I can't do this for 10 years and you shouldn't find someone to find someone to walk with you through it. Find someone who's been there. You may have amazing people in your life.

You may have, and I do, I've got amazing people, but I didn't have the right people to walk with me through it. So. The people that are in your life want you to just to be better. They just want you to be, to feel better and to be back to normal.

And so the, you know, but what really needs to be done is the down on the ground grief, you know, sobbing out loud, whatever it is that you need to do to get through it. If you need to sit out some holidays for it, do you know, that it's okay to do that. I think it's, you know, just. Listening to yourself, taking care of yourself and doing that healing to get through the grief instead of just patching it up because people, you know, around us want to just, you know, well, I mean, at least if someone said to me, at least you, you know, at least you didn't get too attached to them.

You're like, what did you just say to me? Like I was pretty attached, you know, like people sort of assign you an, uh, a grieving period, according to the life of this baby that wasn't even born. And, and it's just, that's just not how it goes. Which is so not okay, but they don't know that.

And that's the other thing that we need to allow is like, people don't know when you are going through a grieving period, people don't understand you're grieving. In fact, sometimes they just don't even know what to do. So then they do nothing. And then you're like, oh, they don't even care.

It's like, no, it's just, everyone is different. But you have to feel the feelings and you have to give yourself permission. It is okay that I'm sad right now. And I'm going to feel sad and I am going to feel all of it.

It's okay that I am devastated because feelings are energy. And if we just keep them trapped inside of us, and if we dismiss them, they're going to come out somehow somewhere, maybe in a way that's not healthy, most likely in a way that's not healthy, but also that's like, when you're feeling agitated or when you're feeling irritated, when you feel like you're feeling like you're really short with your kids, that's usually attached to trap feelings. So I'm sure Jennifer agrees with me, but give yourself permission to feel the loss and the grief as long as you need to. And you said it's okay to sit out some holidays.

It's okay. Holidays are hard in and of themselves, like holidays, we're going to be stressed out because of everything that they bring anyway. But when you're going through just your own trauma, your own grief, your own journey through this process, give yourself all of the grace in the world. Yeah.

I think so much of us, you know, we tie this, you know, this, well, we're so strong, right? I'm so strong. I can get through this. I can get through everything.

Look at me. I I'm, you know, and people would remark on that. Oh, you're so strong. I don't know how you're doing this.

It's like, well, I'm not, this is because I'm not and, you know, but we were real proud of being strong and we can handle everything and it's, you know, it's, it's okay not to be, that doesn't be strong. Yeah. It's okay. It's okay to take your time and honor yourself and feel how you feel and not have any timeline about it.

Yeah. People tell me I'm strong all the time. And I'm sometimes I'm like, you know, I already know that. I don't even want to hear that.

Like, as I'm going through this new thing, that doesn't use telling me I'm strong. Like, I don't, I don't necessarily want to be, of course, we're going to get through this. Right. But right now, no one wants to be with me and like, give me a hug and fill this with me.

That's what I want. I don't want to be told that I'm strong. It's not a badge of honor. No, especially when you're going through something like that, when you're going through a hard loss.

Yeah. So what are some things that helped you? I know we've hit on them a little bit, but what are some other things that have helped you? As you went through this process of like, okay, it is time to start feeling different and face this.

Reconnecting with your body again and giving, forgiving yourself and just, you know, I want to say it's journaling. It's some journaling. I'm not a great journaler as much as I should be, but I wrote letters to my babies. That was my form of journaling.

So I would write them. That was so helpful to write them letters of here's what I think. You'd be doing right now. Here's what I think you'd look like.

Here's what I think you'd like, you know, and here's how old you would be. And I would do that periodically. And I still do throughout the years. That was really healing for me.

And then just, you know, reclaiming my body again and reclaiming my life. I ended up, you know, with a lot of intestinal issues and a hysterectomy. I think they're just related. I just was not taking care of myself and, you know, so.

I think I suffered a lot of those kind of things and just getting back to like, hey, you know, I really do have a great life to look forward to. I had another baby after my loss, you know, did not heal or take away anything, but she, you know, she, she's the joy of my life and we, you know, and so that it's just, you just have to start looking, looking forward. Being okay to look forward and trusting that the future does have you, does have your back. I also like that you said you had another baby, but just because you had another baby didn't necessarily fill that hole.

It wasn't like, okay, well now that I have another baby, I'm happy. Like I said, you still honor the fact that that was a part of your life that was hard. And now you're happy with this baby and you love this baby and you're grateful for this baby. Yeah.

But you still had to fill the fills. It didn't replace it. So often we look for a replacement. Okay.

Well, if I just. You know, so this is, oh, I think humans dying, but I'm like how often when, you know, a dog dies, we just place with another dog. It's like, no, like that was a very big part of my life. You know, I don't want to say dogs and humans are the equivalent, but you know what I'm saying?

It's like, don't replace it, see it, fill it, do all of the things and then be okay with moving forward. It's okay to move forward. And those babies would want you to move forward. Yes, that is true.

I think that that was a huge part of my healing is really thinking about like, would they have wanted me to feel like this all this time and to feel so hopeless and to feel like I'm just kind of in a shell and just going through the motions of life? I don't think they would. Their, their lives were way more meaningful than that. Yeah.

And, you know, so I do think, yes, thinking about that. I also lost my very best friend. Seven months after they died. So I had, yeah, she was, she was 32.

She died of cancer. And so it was just a, it was a season of loss. And then I, you know, and then I had my, my new baby and yeah, I think everyone, when I had my youngest baby, everyone kind of breathed a sigh of relief, like, Ooh, okay. She's good now, you know, so, so everything will be good.

She'll be happy. And, you know, well, it does bring it. A ray of sunshine to your life. There's still a lot going on.

So yeah. Yeah. Acknowledging it and being okay with it. Yeah.

So tell me, you also talked to me before about the danger of keeping silent. How is that? Were you silent? Did that affect you?

Yes, I was because my very first time out of the house after my loss, I went to the grocery store. It was, you know, I was ready. I was prepared to talk to any, you know, I live in a small town. Everybody knows each other.

I was ready. And I walked in with my grocery cart and I started to get on an aisle and I saw someone who I knew and they saw me and turned their cart around and went the other way because they didn't want to talk to me about it. So that gave me the signal that like, people don't want to talk to me about this, you know? So I just, in order to preserve.

Others comfort, I stayed silent and I do think a lot of people do because it, it is so uncomfortable and I always tell my clients too, you know, when, you know, those people who say like, I can't imagine having gone through that. They can, they do imagine when they see you and when they think about what you've gone through, they imagine themselves holding their own baby. And, and, you know, I mean, yes, it's unimaginable, but not. So I just think.

It's so uncomfortable for people that that is something that lost parents do is just stay quiet about it because it just, it's the thing that no one wants to talk about. Yeah. But it also makes you feel like it's pretty invalid. You know, here's this whole thing about you that no one wants to talk about.

No one's validating you or helping just me. Maybe they don't have the full empathy, but like the sympathy that like, okay, I'm here. I hear you. I see you.

Yeah. And this is hard. I can't take it away, but I can be here. Yes.

Yeah. So I do, you know, I think it's important to know when you have someone in your life, because chances are, you will, the statistics are huge for laws, baby laws there at some point will probably be someone in your life. And the best things that you can do are not try to say things that'll fix them and make them feel better because you can't. But just to do that, just to offer, to listen and, and say their baby's name, you know, talk about their baby with their name and, you know, be willing to listen and to talk about this baby and share the dreams of what they, you know, the parents had.

I think that is so healing when you find those people that'll do that. Totally. It's such a, it's such a good reminder and good tip. I'm going through my mind and I'm like, yeah, I haven't experienced a baby loss, experienced other loss.

Yeah. Yes. Like just even saying their name, like this, this is a person to these parents and that they are grieving and sitting with the parents, listening to them, filling them. Yes.

And if you know someone who has, you know, if you know someone send them a text right now, send them a text. I'm thinking about you and the baby's name. Just wanted you to know that those things. Are incredibly, incredibly healing and meaningful, no matter how long it's been.

Yeah. And also that no matter how long it's been. Yeah. It's still a part of their life.

They're still feeling it. They're still, still part of their story. So, and also let's just, I mean, let's just also say when people are thinking about us and actually reach out and say that they are no matter what's going on. Yeah.

It makes you. Yeah. And isn't the timing perfect when those things? Happen to.

Yes, it always is. Yes. Timing is always perfect when, when something like that happens. So.

For sure. Okay. So we've talked about a lot of things. What is like one last little nugget of wisdom you'd want to leave with our audience?

I think the last little nugget would be to be okay to listen to yourself. Just listen to yourself. Your, your body, your brain. I mean, you know, what's best for you and you know, what you need more than any other single person and that it's really okay to listen and trust that this is just part of your process and it's not like anybody else's.

Everyone's journey is different. Thank you for sharing that. Okay. You have also just launched your first course.

I did. Yeah. Perfect for this time of year, because it's how to handle the holidays. Do you want to talk about that first?

Okay. Yes, I would love to. Yeah. So I, I do have a little course on handling the holidays and we go through all kinds of things like other people's expectations and some different ideas of, of ways that you can incorporate your baby into the holiday, you know, into your, your, your, your, your eparties.

Can you share a little bit of that kind of thing? Yeah, sure. So the first thing I was thinking about is doing it and I'm not sure how that kind of answers. I'm hoping it'll work.

I'm hoping it'll work for you. Just that two things. So I see this month is a really significant year for a lot of people. Stevens, when they were in their 40's or 50's there were like no one thing for them.

I don't wanna hurt them or bisog also, someone or another would have felt that that wasn't important to them. Yeah. Right? But yeah, you know, especially the last few years, you know, you'll be kind of Boraus and subscribing and all that kind of thing there, but thereさстве is, you'll be being like, that's not my thing you have to be.

couple of months. Well, that's very generous guys. She has office hours where you can just go in there and get what you need out of office hours. That is amazing.

Okay. So I will have this in the show notes. And she also has like a coupon code for $50 off for my community. So being very generous, everything will be in the show notes.

And with that, we are going to just wrap up and say goodbye. Thank you so much for being on the podcast. Really appreciate your time and your heart and all the work you're doing. So you are making a difference.

And I just wanted to honor that. So thank you. And guys, we will be right back here next week. Have a great week.

Bye. Thank you so much. Hey, if you enjoyed listening to this podcast, then you've got to come check out my signature program at Thrive Camp. This is where we do real coaching and inner work transformation.

I teach you how to apply the strategies and mindset tools we talk about here on the podcast. So you can unlock your true potential and create the life you love. For more info, go to amysanders. co forward slash thrive dash camp.

Again, that's amysanders. co forward slash thrive dash camp. Let's get to work and thrive together. Thank you so much for watching.

I'll see you next week. Bye.