Finding Your Self Worth

I needed to change so much as a person. I don't think I would have been able to hit my seven figures if I didn't change. When I decided that I was going to rewrite my story, when I decided that I was going to tell this story from a place of empowerment, I had to ask myself the question, what are the things about me that I need to let go of right here, right now? Because if I carry this with me into my future, these are things that's going to burden me and these are the things that's going to hold me back.

Welcome to the Thrive Her podcast. I'm your host, Amy Sanders. I'm a fitness and wellness pro, mom, stepmom, second wife, and master certified life coach. I'm here to help you manage your mind so you can uncover the most potent version of yourself and create the thriving life you love.

Hello, hello, everyone. Thanks for tuning in and welcome back to the Thrive Her podcast where we are teaching women how to thrive in your lives no matter where you are at. Today, I have someone that, I mean, I feel like we're soul sisters, seriously. Like, we met and we're just like, she is an amazing individual and she has a very interesting story.

So, couple things about her. First of all, her name's Mina Adnani and she lives in Indonesia. She has done a ton of things, including rebuilding her wealth after 2016. Things went south.

She lost her job. She lost everything. And from there, she has totally taken, like, empowerment and business and all of the things by the reins. And she teaches women how to build their own self-worth and how to basically create the legacy that they want to create.

So, that's why I'm like, she's a woman of my own heart because she loves to show women what's possible and she's an example of that. She is the first educated woman in her family. We're going to talk more about that. And she also is the first self-made millionaire, which is humongous.

So, welcome to the podcast. I'm so excited for you to be here and everything that we're going to talk about today. So, welcome, welcome. Can you tell us a little bit more?

Thank you. Thank you so much, Amy. I'm so excited to be here. And I really do feel like we were meant to meet.

It's so exciting to meet someone who gets me and also has been through a similar journey as I have. Yes. It's like immediately your soul sister is like, okay, yep. She's a woman from my own cloth.

I love it. So, before we hit record, we just like started diving into like all these conversations. We're like, okay, never mind. We just have to hit record.

So, we are going to talk about all the things, her success, her highs and lows, things that she went through. And yeah, we'll just start with, do you want to tell us a little bit more about your story? I mean, it's amazing. Your first educated woman in your family.

Yeah. Well, when people tell me to tell about my story, sometimes I just don't know where to start because there is so much that I feel like, oh my God, where do I start? I was born in Indonesia. My parents have eight kids.

So, I'm one of the eight kids. I'm the fourth. And we are altogether seven girls and one boy. So, my brother is the sixth.

I'm the fourth. And as you said, in my family, when I was growing up, I kind of could tell that it was the fate. This is what I was told by my aunts. I used to hang out with my aunts a lot when I was a child.

And I kind of like got very curious about life because I didn't understand a few things. And you know, when you're a child, you have such a simplistic view on things. And I kind of miss that innocence. But I used to notice a few things.

I noticed that my dad and my uncles worked. My mom was at home. My aunts were at home. And I noticed they had different mannerism.

They had different priorities in life. And my aunts and my mom, their priorities was to look after their husbands. And I was like, something is weird here. How come they don't seem to have a life independent of their husbands?

And how come their happiness and sadness is dependent on their husbands? So I had this conversation with my aunt when I was a child. And I asked her a lot of questions about marriage and what does it mean and life. And she said, oh, don't worry.

It'll happen to you. I asked her a simple question like, how come you don't have your own independent life? And how come your life is so different? And why would you leave your parents that you've known all your life for a man you don't even know?

Because it was an arranged marriage. And she's like, oh, don't worry. It'll happen to you. And that was like something that I was very traumatized by when I was a child.

And somehow I don't know why or how I became very determined that I was going to become financially independent. Somehow I have no idea how I figured it out that I needed to find a way where I would not need to give in to the pressures of society or someone else dictating how I should live my life. And somehow I seem to know that the only way to do it is to become financially independent. So I really set the goal since I was a child.

So that's a bit about me. That's why I became the first educated woman in my family. Because growing up, I was very determined in school. I was always like sitting right in the front, always wanting to make sure I excelled.

I had this dream and this vision. I'm going to go to the UK. I'm going to go to university in the UK. And my dad was an extremely conservative man.

He was a conservative dad. In fact, amongst my childhood friends, they are quite surprised because all of them ended up getting married and being pressurized by their parents. And I was one person where my dad actually listened to me and said, okay, I will let you go and follow your dreams, which they didn't expect because my dad was very, very strict. But I was very determined and I talked him into letting me go overseas to get educated since the age of 12.

So since 12 to 16, I negotiated with him until I got to 16. And when I got to 16, I kind of could tell very quickly that he was kind of blowing me off every year because every year is like, oh, you need to be the top 10 students in the class. And then I was, oh, you need to be the top five in the class. And then I was, oh, you need to be the top three.

I'm like, hang on a second. Something is going on here. So when I was 16, somehow I found an agency. I came across them on the newspaper.

An agency that was helping students apply for school or university overseas. And then I very bravely went to the agency. And if you come to think about it, it was quite daring because nowadays, you know, you don't know whether this is going to be like trafficking or anything like that. But I basically went to the agency.

I called my mom and I said, listen, I'm doing this. I went, I went to the agency, had a conversation with them, gave them all my reports. And when they secured admission from me, that was the only time I went to my dad. And I said, I've done all the work.

Please let me go. Yeah. How did he take it at that point? You're like, OK, I did all of these things.

Was he OK? Yeah, he was. He was a bit taken aback because he didn't expect me to be, you know, taking the lead in this. He was much more pro me going to the UK versus the US because the US is so far away.

And he was like, OK, if you're in the UK and we had relatives in the UK, so he was a little bit more comfortable about me going to the UK. But every single year, I had to negotiate as well to go back because every year he got nervous and he was like, oh, my God, no, no, no, it's not safe. You got to come back. And I would be like, no, dad, I'm just one year into it.

No, no, dad, two more years. No, dad, one more year. I just started bachelor's of law. No, dad, two more years.

Every year I just negotiated my way. OK, let's also talk about the education you got. You became an attorney. Yes, I qualified as a solicitor, which is an attorney in the UK.

And I also qualified as an attorney in New York. So I qualified in two jurisdictions in the UK and in New York. Amazing. Which is very rare.

I mean, sorry to generalize, but you don't see many white guys even with this qualification, you know? No, no. It's amazing. So as you went through that process, how did your family take it?

Were they just like, whoa, this is amazing. She's incredible. Or were they like, why are you doing this? You don't have to do this.

I'm not really sure how they perceived it, but I can tell you what I went through because I was so determined on achieving my goals that I didn't really pay attention to a lot of things. And some of the things became very apparent to me over time. So, for example, as I left overseas and I got educated every year when I would come back home, I noticed how different I was from everyone else. And you know how we tend to feel very left out when we stand out.

So I would try my best to kind of fit in. But every time I tried to fit in, I felt I was really doing a lot of disservice to myself because I didn't fit in. I didn't enjoy the conversations other women would have because a lot of the conversations were more around, you know, buying bags or shoes or kids. And I was very much interested in business.

I was interested in life. I wanted to learn so much more in life. And so because I came from such a traditional background, the people I was surrounded by, I kind of had outgrown them so much that every now and then I found it very hard and I tried to fit in every year. And because I didn't fit in, I ended up suffering from identity crisis from many different aspects because I am an Indian born in Indonesia.

I studied in the UK. I was qualified. I was educated. And then I come back to a country where people are not as qualified as I am.

So it was very challenging. And I want to share this because I think it's very important for people to realize that, you know, sometimes there is a price to pay for the dreams that you have. And I am glad that I paid that price. It wasn't easy, but I'm glad I paid that price because I would rather live the life that I want versus the life that was already carved out for me.

So powerful. And with what you just said, you said a few points that I'm like, I want to hit on those. So first of all, you had to keep going. Like your dad was like, okay, now here's the next bar.

And you're like, all right, well, I'll hit it. Here's the next bar. Okay, well, I'm going to hit that. You know, you really did continually show up for yourself and for your dreams.

They don't just come free. You had to do the work. And another thing that you said that was like super, like, I don't know, I think important is you're like, I didn't fit in. I think so many female entrepreneurs we're speaking to women in general today, but especially the female entrepreneur, you do feel different.

I have always felt so different than my peers, people around me, my neighborhood. And at times, for me, when I have felt that way, it's like, oh, do I keep going? And it's almost easier to turn away from, you know, when you said I had to, you had to like, okay, no, this is what I want. You know, check yourself and go for it.

It's like, for me, I'm like, it is easier to just try to fit in, but it doesn't feel good. I feel like you're being authentic to you. Yeah. You know, it's a very, very good point, Amy.

I think one thing we have never been taught is how to tune in to our inner voice. Since we were born and until the life that we live nowadays in this era and in this generation, if you come to think, right, since the time we were born, everything we learned are things we picked up through our five senses. We just literally duplicated every behavior that we witnessed, that we heard, that we experienced. We just accepted.

We never questioned any of the beliefs that we had. And then what happens is, this is why people talk a lot about, oh, I feel, I don't feel like this job is for me, or I feel I'm at a point of a crossroad, or I feel like I am soul searching. The reason we go through that period is because most of our life, we have literally shut down our inner voice. And when we feel we're at a crossroad, when we feel like there is some kind of a voice that's telling us that I don't belong in this job, I don't belong in this marriage, or I don't belong in this family, that voice is trying to awaken something in you.

It's trying to awaken the whole reason why you are even on this earth. And the reason we don't trust that voice is because there is so much noise on the outside that tells us how we should live our life. And because of that noise, we tend to downplay that little voice because the noise and the voice outside is so much louder. And it goes also along with when people say, oh, but if it's not true, why would everybody do it?

Just because something is popular doesn't mean it's right. And we tend to just go with what's acceptable, but we don't listen to the inner voice. And so when you listen to the inner voice, you start feeling much more aligned with who you are meant to be. And that's something that is hard for a lot of women because we have been told specifically how we should live our life.

The role we play as a mother, the role we play as a wife, the role we play even at jobs, it's even though we're living at a time when you see so many women who are CEOs, it's still not a norm. And so even a woman who is a CEO has to many times second guess herself because this is not something that is very common. So I kind of relate when women go through this because I've been through that journey myself. Yeah.

Such an important point to bring up. It's like, keep going though. Keep going. Keep listening to that inner voice.

So for you, it seems like you really were pretty good at listening to that inner voice even as a small child. I mean, you saw these differences like when you were talking to your aunts and you were looking at the men in your life, like that's not normal. Like you already were tuning inward and saying, wait, you were questioning and you were going for it. That's remarkable.

Yeah. I remember when my aunt told me that. I remember I couldn't sleep. I couldn't sleep for like a few nights.

I was, I think, 12. And I think I was a thinker since I was a child. I couldn't sleep. And my parents were very religious.

And so they kind of ingrained that in us. And so I believed in God even though I was a child. And I remember going to sleep at night sometimes saying, I know you exist, God, but I don't think you're cruel because how is it possible that I'm supposed to be listening to my dad until I'm 17? I listen to everything.

Like I can't do what I want. I have to listen to what he wants. And then when I'm 17, I have to listen to what my husband wants. And then I die.

Like it's not possible. Why didn't you create me? Like I asked God this. Like why didn't you create me?

If my life is just supposed to be serving my dad until I'm 17 and then serving my husband and then I die. God, that's a really cruel God. And I don't think you're cruel. I remember saying that to God when I was a child.

I just loved how like blunt you put it too. I don't think you're cruel. Like is this really what I'm about? Yeah.

Okay. Let's talk about your experience when you lost everything and then how you gained it back within two years. Let's go there. Sure.

So in 2016, I mean, I'll share a bit of context as well. So I qualified in the UK. I qualified as an attorney in New York. After that, I went on to work for multinational companies.

I worked at a law firm in the UK. I worked at a law firm in Singapore. And then I also took on, I pivoted from law. I started taking on business development, sales and marketing roles.

So I started taking on senior executive roles in multinational companies, taking on business development, sales, marketing. In 2017, I was voted as the top negotiator in town in Jakarta Globe, which is equal to like a Forbes magazine in Indonesia. So I was doing really, really well in my life, in my career. But unfortunately, I suffered a massive financial crisis.

I suffered a massive financial loss. And in 2016, I got a call from the person who was managing my finances. And I think there's a story there as well, which I think it's important to address because we as women, regardless of how qualified I was, there was a limiting belief which I didn't know existed. And that limiting belief was I'm not good with money.

You know? And so I'd rather farm out that responsibility to someone else to manage my finances because all I am is about working. I'm a professional. I don't know anything about money.

So these are the lies we tell ourselves. And so I found out that responsibility to someone else to handle my finances. And in 2016, I got a call, basically insisted on meeting up. And when I met him, he just told me everything is gone.

And, you know, it was like being in a movie because I was like, how is that even possible? How is it even possible? Because I was very clear I didn't want to take any kind of risky investments. I was very clear that I didn't want to do anything which is like not aligned with my what I do in terms of investment.

I'd rather be safe. I'd rather make sure I have small returns, but I don't want to take massive risks. I had given like all these instructions and yet I'm being told this, right? So there were so many things that crossed my mind at that time.

But at first it was the disbelief. But after it all sank in, it became very clear to me that that money wasn't just money. You know, that money was my freedom, the freedom that I wanted my entire life. And I felt that in my entire life, I felt like I stood out like a sore thumb.

I didn't fit into any circles. But I didn't let that bother me because I had that pot of gold at the end of that tunnel. Sometimes that tunnel was dark, but I had that pot of gold at the end of the tunnel. So for me, it was like I would blank out everything.

Nothing would matter because all that mattered was you can say what you want, but I'm good. I'm living the life that I want. I'm aligned with who I'm meant to be and I'm good. But when it's all gone, you start questioning a lot of things.

You start questioning why did it even happen? Why did I have to go through all the things I went through in my life only to get to a place to lose everything? What was the point? So the question I kept asking was, what was the point?

What was the point? And you go through different cycles, disbelief, anger, frustration, you know, blame, all of these things, right? So I went through that cycle. But I'm very fortunate because I think ever since I was a kid as well, I always had this ability.

I had this ability to think positively. I was very resilient, clearly, because if I wasn't, I wouldn't get to where I was because I had so much opposition to be able to achieve that level of education. So after going through that whole cycle, I got to a point where suddenly I realized, you know what? I can continue going on like this.

I can really go on like this, being bitter, being angry, being frustrated. But there is a winner in me. And I know I always, always strive to win. There is a winner in me.

And if I want to win this game, I cannot be a victim. So how do I tell this story from a place of empowerment rather than from a place of a victim? So I played with the idea that I'm sitting somewhere and I'm sharing this story about how I lost my finances and made it back. And suddenly I felt good because, you know, all this, all this, like, blame and victim mentality.

It didn't feel good. It just didn't feel good. When that felt good, suddenly it made me realize, you know what? I do have a choice.

I can spend all my time and energy being sucked into this drama, or I can use that time and energy to heal, to focus on my future, to build new dreams, to have a vision, and to trust, to trust, to trust. So what I did was I created on my phone. I didn't know it. I didn't know anything about the laws of the universe.

I didn't know anything about the secret. None of that. I just took my phone and I started taking pictures of things that I liked online, and I put it in my notes. I just put it in my notes.

I some of my pictures were like I said to myself, Okay, what do I want to go after? I didn't think a $1,000,000. I just thought for me success. What does success look like?

Oh, it looks like owning a villa in Bali. That's what success looks like for me. I said, Okay. So I took a picture of Bali, and I put on my phone, and then I was like, Okay, what else is it?

I want to be able to do yoga in Bali. I want to qualify as a yoga instructor, even though I don't want to teach yoga. Maybe that's something. So you know I started thinking about the things I wanted, and I put it on my note every now and then I would look at my note again every now and then I would look at my note again, and I continue to focus.

Then something within me just said, Start sharing. Start sharing, because every day I would have to talk myself into showing up in life. It was a struggle. It was a struggle, you know, just telling yourself every morning that you gotta put your feet on the ground.

Come on, you can take a few steps. Come on, you can brush your teeth. Come on, you can put your makeup on every every step. I had to do that to myself just to be able to show up.

So every day, as I started doing this, I had to talk myself into thinking positively. I had to talk myself into looking at the blessings, and I started writing about it. I started writing about it on social media. First I started writing on my regular feed, and then I felt I have not comfortable, and I created a small group.

I didn't know anything about online businesses at that time, so I created a small group on social media. I only added like a I don't know handful of friends, and I started adding. My friends started writing about maybe today. I would writing about appreciation.

I talk about how to overcome 3 3 mindset tips to overcome hardship. Another day I would talk about, you know, letting go and forgiving like different things. I would talk about every day, and my friends would start adding their friends into the group. And as I started adding their friends into the group, I would start getting messages from women who would tell me that post of yours really helped me today.

And this helped me today, and that helped me today. And I was like, Oh, wow, that's so interesting. I never ever thought about that. And then I had a friend who was a lurker.

She didn't really comment, and then out of the blue she messaged me and said, You know, I have been following your journey, and i'm so inspired by what you're doing and stuff. And then she said, I have a few companies who are interested in like being coached, and I am wondering if you would be open to it. If you are, then I would introduce you, you know, and i'm like, Okay, sure. So I said, fine, and I started talking to the companies.

Now I have been doing marketing sales. And this is development for 20 years by then, and I absolutely love doing doing it, you know, like in my previous company. I achieved my 5 year goal in one year, because I really love being able to negotiate deals things strategically, and I think having a legal background has been such a fantastic skill, even in business. So I was like fine when she introduced me to to this companies.

The first company that I mentored was a company that was in food and F. And B. Okay. It was a vegan restaurant.

I didn't even know anything about restaurant business. But as we started talking, and I started understanding what exactly was a challenge, because there were so many things i'm like, No, let's focus on this particular area. What can we fix? And by the time we had a conversation the next time the revenue had gone up by 30%.

I'm like, Oh, my God, you know. So seeing that seeing that difference I could make was very, very thrilling. And so over time, as I started working with different companies. And then I started getting.

Referrals. I was people online started asking me about business. This is how I started my journey, and after like about a year or 2 doing this on the side, and doing my still having my regular job. I had this massive discomfort, massive discomfort in my heart, and I was asking God.

I'm like, Why am I feeling so restless? Why am I feeling so restless? You know I feel there is something. And then one day, as I was walking.

Past my team to go to the bathroom, I felt a voice in my head. Say, look at all your people you're not gonna see them for too long, and i'm like, Oh, my God, why? Where am I going? You know, and then this voice was, you know, if you want to walk on water, you gotta step out of the boat.

You're too comfortable in your own boat, and you gotta step out of the boat. And when I heard that voice suddenly I saw something very clearly. I saw women like my aunts. I saw women who did not have financial freedom, and I was like, I know why i'm supposed to quit my job, because there are so many women out there who don't know how to create that financial freedom.

There are so many women out there who are stuck in unhappy jobs and happy relationships, unhappy situations only because they don't have the money to be able to live the life that they want. And I decided that I was gonna let go of the comfort of this incredible, amazing job that I had that I absolutely loved, because I wanted to follow what I believe is my purpose to help women build wealth, to help women overcome this mental block, or this belief that I don't have what it takes to build this wealth, because I have been through it, and I and I know what it's like. So yeah, in 2 years I hit my first 7 figures. And I bought my dream villa in Bali.

And I was just for me. It was such a such a beautiful, humbling experience, because it no longer money no longer became about success. Money no longer became about me. It was something I was like grateful for something I felt very, very humbled by, you know.

So it that that whole process changed who I became as a person right? Well, it would it would, and it was amazing just like the steps. The steps that you took there was, you know, the the the the same steps that you took to mirror your amazing work. It was just like a journey through your life.

And again, you are totally listening to your inner voice. Yeah, the voice that a lot of women turn away from, they're like, Okay, No, That won't work. No, that, that. I'm not gonna listen that that's scary.

Once going against the grain or you know. So I love that. You look at it. You recognize it.

people to stop and listen and the meditation and the prayer, everything that you're doing to stay in line with where you're going. So powerful. So what would you tell the women who are like, well, how did, how did this happen? What is her secret to success?

You know, I think the greatest secret to success is that there is no secret. I think the problem with the world nowadays is we are being trained for distraction. If you think about it, we used to not have internet. We not, we never used to have social media.

So we used to enjoy reading books, right? Now with the internet, with audio books, with content that we are consuming in a lot of ways, it's great. It depends on what content you're consuming. Of course, with Netflix, with television, we are constantly trained ourselves for distraction and even worse, we multitask and then it gets worse.

At first, we can listen to a half hour podcast. Now it's becoming 15 minutes. Now a TikTok video, one minute is also too long. It needs to be 15 seconds.

If you notice, we are being so trained for distraction that we are expecting anything and everything to be instant and quick. But the truth is there is no such thing, which is instant. There is no such thing, which is quick. As you know, and you've been through that journey like I have, when we talked about this before we got on the podcast, we always assume when I make that $1 million, I will be happy.

When I get to that place, I will be happy. First and foremost, let me tell you, whether you make a million or you don't, your struggles are going to be the same. It's great to have the money and to have the financial freedom, but don't even for a second delude yourself into thinking that your problems will go away when you have money. Because the problem is actually in our mind.

When we don't learn how to train our mind and we don't learn to accept the fact that every day there will be struggles that we will have, but we just need to be okay about the fact that there are struggles and that we have the tools to overcome it. So answering your question about what is the secret, there is no secret. If you really want to make sure that you have the discipline, the resilience, and the bandwidth to grow, because the same you will only create the same results. If you want a different result, it has to be a different you.

I needed to change so much as a person. I don't think I would have been able to hit my seven figures if I didn't change. When I decided that I was going to rewrite my story, when I decided that I was going to tell this story from a place of empowerment, I had to ask myself the question, what are the things about me that I need to let go of right here, right now? Because if I carry this with me into my future, these are things that's going to burden me and these are the things that's going to hold me back and hold me down.

So I need to let go of a few things. I needed to let go of the anger. I needed to let go of the blame. I needed to let go of just this thing about telling myself I was a victim and that I was stupid and I was all of these things, what it would be like if I came from a place, a different place.

That required a lot of work that required me changing as a person spiritually, that required me changing mentally as well, always focusing on what was possible instead of what had been taken away. And third, investing in my own growth, even growing as a person in terms of business, regardless of how qualified I was, I still needed to learn and grow through the process. And I'm sure you agree as well. We keep growing and growing and growing and growing and growing.

And we keep growing and growing. And we keep growing and growing and growing and growing and growing. And we keep growing and growing and growing. And we keep investing in growth because when you reach a million dollars, the same you is not going to take you to $10 million.

So you constantly have to keep growing and growing as a person. And I find a lot of people have a massive resistance to growth. They are like, no, I want to stay exactly where I am doing nothing except for 15 second videos and consuming 15 second videos and tell me the recipe to success right here, right now. There is no such thing.

Wow. Tell me in 15 seconds and I will do it for 15 seconds. Yeah. That's true.

And then I'll give up when nobody likes my, my video. Yeah, I was actually, it's such a good reminder. So yesterday I was coaching someone and she's amazing. She's so she's started a coaching business and she's totally growing and it's awesome.

It's been so fun to be like, just in there with her success and seeing what she's doing. And she went live for the first time in this training yesterday and, uh, eight people watched and she came to me discouraged that only eight people were on like her, her first live. And I was like, and it was within a group. So it wasn't like she went live to everybody.

It was like, she went live within a Facebook group and eight people watched. And I was like, girl, like eight people watched and they watched your entire thing. They didn't get off. Yeah.

They kept watching, which is amazing. And that's a big deal. And it's like, but that's where it starts is those little things. And you consistently do them.

And over time they compound. And as you do them, you do get better. You do become a better version of you, but I love that. You just like made it so broad, like blunt, like this, this is why, this is why people don't see the success that they want because they're not being resilient.

They aren't getting uncomfortable. Growth is always going to be uncomfortable. That is a guarantee. And people think success is a straight line.

It's not a straight line. It's always up and down and up and down, up and down. And the thing is when it's down, most people quit, you know, like I help people build personal brands and I always tell them that it takes, it's a long, long journey. I'm not saying you won't see results in a short period.

What I'm saying is if you want to build a personal brand, it is a long haul. It's not something that you build overnight. It's built in a few months and everybody will know me. I mean, people who've already got like 3 million followers or 2 million followers, they started their journey seven years ago, 10 years ago.

And when we tend to compare our page one to someone else's page a hundred, and we think like, why am I not there yet? I realize the amount of content people have actually pushed out in order for them to get to where they are. So it is, it's a journey. It's a journey and it starts somewhere, you know, like having eight people watch.

That's amazing. That was your first time. Guess what? My first time I went live, I had zero, like maybe one for a few minutes, you know, but you can't make that mean anything.

It's just like, okay, this is just part of the journey. Don't compare your starting point to someone else's like seven years down the road. Such a good point. A good reminder.

So why, why is it that we tend to doubt ourselves? So I do believe that this is Amy logic, which means it's not necessarily true. It's my logic, but I do tend to believe that women doubt themselves a whole lot more than men. Yeah, I agree.

I think, I think a lot of it is the social conditioning as well. You know, it's interesting when I was a few years ago, I was giving a talk in Norway and at the end of the conversation, because I kept referring to, oh, as an Asian, as an Asian, this is how I was brought up. And as a woman, you know, the Asian culture at the end of it, a couple of people came up to me and it was quite interesting. I had this woman who was English and she was in her seventies.

I had another woman from the US. She was in the sixties. And I had this guy who was somewhere, he was from Europe and his wife was from Sudan. And if you think about it, the cultures are so different.

And I'm Indian from Indonesia. We're standing around and every single, all three of them told me that, you know what, why is it that you keep referring to your challenges in the Asian context? What we want to tell you is our stories may be different from yours, but we struggled with similar things. And I thought like, how interesting, because that guy was telling me about his wife from Sudan and he was saying exactly the same thing.

He said that whenever she dressed up, she would ask him like 10 times. Do I look okay? And he would be like, why do you keep asking me that? You know, like, if you like what you're wearing, be okay with it, you know?

And so these other women were saying the same thing. One of them was in a very, she was in her sixties, American woman. She was in her sixties and she was in a marriage that she just didn't want to be in. She had, and she had been in that marriage her entire life.

I think she had grandkids already. And she said that I just. Just never, ever spoke up, never spoke up everything my husband wanted. I did.

I just never spoke up. And she said, I've come to a point where I want to be able to speak up. I want to be able to say that this is not the life I want. And so she had decided when she went home, this is what she was going to have the conversation with her husband, you know?

So back to your question about why is it that women doubt themselves? I think generationally, even though, like I said, you know, we've come a long way, but generationally, if you look at it. Women. Women always were supposed to be dependent on their husbands.

Women were always supposed to be the home caretaker. Women were always supposed to be the ones who were serving, you know? And even though we have made so much progress in the last hundreds of years, but it's still not to a point where it's normal, you know, it's normal for a woman to be calling the shots. It's not women in leadership still doubt.

They doubt themselves so much because they never, ever felt like this is my rightful place. Yeah. And this is generationally, there's a lot that needs to be changed in the mindset because we have acquired these beliefs, you know, one generation to the other, to the other, to the other, the things that we are taught. I mean, sometimes, even though my mom has allowed me to achieve the success that I have, and she's very proud of me.

Sometimes she still says things. Like as a girl, as a woman, and I have to sit her down and say, mom doesn't work like that anymore, you know, and I, and I explained to her why in the olden context, it was acceptable and why today it's not because in the olden context, women didn't have the same opportunities. They didn't go to school. They didn't go to university.

They didn't, they weren't given the ability to, to, to create this financial freedom. Now women have it. So if they do, you cannot tell a woman. She shouldn't have an opinion because it's not possible.

You know, you can't get someone to get to a level where they're so smart that you want to dumb them down. It's not possible, you know, a lot of these things I think are so sensitive. And it's another thing that's very important to talk about. Amy is, and I really love this topic because as women, if we don't take the responsibility to heal, what happens is when someone does something or say something, which is.

Unacceptable, you will be triggered. And when you are triggered, you don't come from a place of empowerment. And I think that's such an important thing to talk about because nowadays I see so many people talk about women empowerment, but it is not the women empowerment that I believe in. It is not the women empowerment that I represent.

And it is not the women empowerment. That is the true women empowerment. A woman who is empowered does not need to sit here. And just sit here.

And justify. Why she is who she is. She does not need to do that at the expense of saying bad things about men. Right.

And she doesn't need to be doing it by bad-mouthing other people, other competitors, you know? And I see this happening so much online which I think is a real problem. I think men and women are created to co-elevate. I think men are created to come together.

I think men and women are created to live together. our partners in helping us grow how the world consciousness would grow the global economy we all have different roles to play and we need to learn to not just coexist but co-elevate cooperate but i see so many people talk about women empowerment as if we want to pick up arms that's not women empowerment that's a woman who's triggered who just needs to spend a bit more time healing her traumas yeah wow i just want to say mic drop that was so powerful what you just shared drop the mic we're done podcast is over no i'm just kidding yeah it's so important that that's something that really saddens me when i see that online you know when people feel the need to oh i'm an empowered woman so i can say these bad things about people no you're not empowered that's not being empowered no yeah if you're that empowered you should be kind of like the perspective of the medical professional to wouldn't you say like go do something you do that it's like папi yeah it's like do something amazing in your life so what i think is important is that that's something i think people actually cannot really get into marketing that's an element in like that they don't need to learn to so you know so in this practical sense for me to really go back to what threads and teenagers talked about like mother mother came through my brain just so many daughter'sф begin to mature and take over the community for their own goals right it becomes a really strong life now so it's such an important point that because of the amount up as a truly empowered woman you're actually vibing at a very high energy and you're attracting people in that same vibe you're attracting that wealth and whatever your goals may be like if you are truly being empowered there's no room for that negativity there's no room for any of that because that's not even where you live exactly and so ask yourself how are you showing up and yes it's okay and if you need to heal it's actually okay it's good heal it we all need to I think we all always have you know every time you get to a level of you think I've healed suddenly there's something else you're like oh my god I didn't know I still needed to heal on this one you know it's it's layers and it's okay but the thing is it's important to take responsibility rather than actually projecting it out to someone else take responsibility and do the work yeah so good okay so we've talked about a lot of things I've loved our discussion you were talking about how you're trying to heal and how you're trying to heal and how you're just such a gem that I'm like so happy to have you here so what would be something that you would love to share with the audience before we go like just one last nugget before we wrap up actually like we could have talked we could talk for like three more hours I know we can't I know I'm like I have so many more questions for you so maybe we have to like come back soon yes yes another episode but what's something that you would love to share with the audience who maybe struggles with belief or like you know like you know like you know like you know like you know like you know like they want more they want to start a business just that person that's in that place yeah I I what I want to say is first and foremost trust that voice trust that voice and once you trust that voice remember everything that you need to learn you can learn just because you don't know it now doesn't mean you will not know it one month from now you can learn at first we tend to doubt ourselves because we don't know I tell you I will wrap this up with a story I was working at that time this is like at the time when Skype came out okay so you can imagine how how many years ago that was my sister lived um in South America and South America is halfway across the world for us and she used to miss home really miss home and when Skype came out I gave her a call and I said like a regular call and I said look we have Skype now you can call home and you don't even have to pay a bomb to to speak to mom you know and she was like and she just resisted that idea and she's like I don't know how to do it I I'm not smart I'm not I said stop it I said stop it and I'm younger than her I kind of told her off I said stop it and I said I want you to stop talking about what you can't do and I want you to just hear my voice I'm staying on the phone with you until you do this step by step and she said but I kind of said stop it listen to me so I told I said type www. skype. com like I literally took her to the step one by one by one she did it she downloaded it she spoke to mom and I tell you it changed her life it changed her life because she could just randomly call my mom and speak to my mom whenever she wanted and it really helped her because she was so homesick and now when she tells me anything about how she can't do I would say stop it you remember the Skype situation you did it right just because you didn't know it doesn't mean you can't learn it so so that's a good analogy for me to wanted to share that story so that people everyone listening can understand that just because you don't know how to start your business doesn't mean you can't learn it everything you want you can learn everything you want you can learn and where you are right now is because of what you've learned in the past exactly exactly so I love I love that thank you so much for everything you've shared with having me it's been such a joy yeah it's been so great guys if you need more of her in your life I have all of her information in the show notes she is incredible she obviously has helped so many people and can help you too so make sure that you check her out Mina again thank you so much for being on the podcast likewise thank you so much Amy such a joy to talk to you hey if you enjoyed listening to this podcast then you've got to come check out my signature program at thrive camp this is where we do real coaching and inner work transformation I teach you how to apply the strategies and mindset tools we talk about here on the podcast so you can unlock your true potential and create the life you love for more info go to amysanders.

co forward slash thrive dash camp again that's amysanders.